chanduv23
02-13 11:02 PM
Those who have info on Rajiv Khanna's lawsuit, please post it on this thread. Please post valid links to references. Please analyse what went wrong, if Rajiv thought he had a case, why was the lawsuit not sucessful. Please post on this thread
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mchundi
01-09 02:11 PM
I just got to this site via from immigration portal.
I have been reading a lot in the other forum and here about the ways to cure retrogression. Lobbying for more Visa's and other things that were part of the S.1932 bill are fine, however these things are not going to solve the retrogression problem even if such a bill gets passed.
No one seems to be talking about the real problem that is Labor Substitution. Abolishing Labor Substitution will itself take care of every retrogression problem.
The INS does not have the right tools to police the misue of this rule. This is resutling in a lot of problems for even those employees whose Labor's get substituted even if they are still working in the same company.
Any effort to reform immigration should start with first reforming the Labor Substitution rule (if not completely abolish).
I know that all the companies/employers and the lawyers community are against removing the Labor substitution, therefore it will never be removed, but atleast it should be reformed so that it can be better policed so that no one is able to misuse it and play with peoples lives. And in turn add to retregression.
Following reforms are needed in Labor Substitution.
- First thing in the Labor Substitution reform is related to the Priority date. The Priority Date for a substituted Labor should the date when the Labor is substituted (or the I-140 filing date). It should not be be the date when the Labor was originally filed. This in itself will solve 90% of the problems related to retrogression.
- When a Labor is substituted it should be verified immediately to find if there is any I-140 or I-485 that is pending based on this Labor. If so then the Labor should be rejected immediately. Currently this is not done at the time the Labor is substituted, therefore the resulting 485 filing just amounts to add up into the backlog of Visa Number requirement, until the priority date becomes current for this 485.
- If an employee invokes the AC21 then that Labor should not be allowed to be substituted.
- There should be a limit to the time until which a Labor can be substituted. This could be debatable and could have other consequences, as the INS could invalidate any GC application that is been pending for more than the this duration.
In short the Labour substitution rule is in a mess and is getting miused a lot. People are getting fooled by the employers, and ultimately its making the retrogression more worse.
neocor
Probably true,
I think the DOL/USCIS(I dont know who) is moving in this direction.
The real problem is the 7% limit per country and the time it takes for one to go thru the 3 steps.
There r several people who have started G.C process several times for different reasons. This slows them (DOL/USCIS) down and remember this is like a chain reaction until u stop applying for a G.C or AC21 kicks in.
Bill Clinton signed some immigration relief for the illegal immigrants just before he left without allocating any resources to process them. Close to 300,000 illegal immigrants filed their labor before Apr 2001. This brought the DOL to a halt and it couldnot recover for 2 years. Finally the BEC's were created to resolve the mess created by the new law. They did not sove the problem but addressed it to some extent. For some it became worse.
In the meantime several VISA numbers went unused because the DOL probably scrutinized the cases more thoroughly and probably there were more rejections by USCIS
The reason why so many people look for loop holes is because of the inordinate delay in the process.
I guess the situation will only become worse unless those who got their labor get to apply for 485 and get portability thru AC21 or dropout altogether.
The problem with labor is partly addressed thru PERM. Over the next couple of years the BEC's eliminate the backlog and soon everybody will be in the hunt for the VISA numbers.
The best that can be done now is the fight for more VISA numbers and be able to file for I485 whether a VISA number is available or not or anything that addresses this like
1: increase the overall VISA numbers (McGain && Kennedy)
2: capture unused VISA numbers
3: Cap not being applicable for those with Masters degree in ---- && 3+ years exp before starting the G.C process (Sen. Chuk hagel)
4: Being able to file I-485 even with no VISA number(failed S-1932)
--MC
I have been reading a lot in the other forum and here about the ways to cure retrogression. Lobbying for more Visa's and other things that were part of the S.1932 bill are fine, however these things are not going to solve the retrogression problem even if such a bill gets passed.
No one seems to be talking about the real problem that is Labor Substitution. Abolishing Labor Substitution will itself take care of every retrogression problem.
The INS does not have the right tools to police the misue of this rule. This is resutling in a lot of problems for even those employees whose Labor's get substituted even if they are still working in the same company.
Any effort to reform immigration should start with first reforming the Labor Substitution rule (if not completely abolish).
I know that all the companies/employers and the lawyers community are against removing the Labor substitution, therefore it will never be removed, but atleast it should be reformed so that it can be better policed so that no one is able to misuse it and play with peoples lives. And in turn add to retregression.
Following reforms are needed in Labor Substitution.
- First thing in the Labor Substitution reform is related to the Priority date. The Priority Date for a substituted Labor should the date when the Labor is substituted (or the I-140 filing date). It should not be be the date when the Labor was originally filed. This in itself will solve 90% of the problems related to retrogression.
- When a Labor is substituted it should be verified immediately to find if there is any I-140 or I-485 that is pending based on this Labor. If so then the Labor should be rejected immediately. Currently this is not done at the time the Labor is substituted, therefore the resulting 485 filing just amounts to add up into the backlog of Visa Number requirement, until the priority date becomes current for this 485.
- If an employee invokes the AC21 then that Labor should not be allowed to be substituted.
- There should be a limit to the time until which a Labor can be substituted. This could be debatable and could have other consequences, as the INS could invalidate any GC application that is been pending for more than the this duration.
In short the Labour substitution rule is in a mess and is getting miused a lot. People are getting fooled by the employers, and ultimately its making the retrogression more worse.
neocor
Probably true,
I think the DOL/USCIS(I dont know who) is moving in this direction.
The real problem is the 7% limit per country and the time it takes for one to go thru the 3 steps.
There r several people who have started G.C process several times for different reasons. This slows them (DOL/USCIS) down and remember this is like a chain reaction until u stop applying for a G.C or AC21 kicks in.
Bill Clinton signed some immigration relief for the illegal immigrants just before he left without allocating any resources to process them. Close to 300,000 illegal immigrants filed their labor before Apr 2001. This brought the DOL to a halt and it couldnot recover for 2 years. Finally the BEC's were created to resolve the mess created by the new law. They did not sove the problem but addressed it to some extent. For some it became worse.
In the meantime several VISA numbers went unused because the DOL probably scrutinized the cases more thoroughly and probably there were more rejections by USCIS
The reason why so many people look for loop holes is because of the inordinate delay in the process.
I guess the situation will only become worse unless those who got their labor get to apply for 485 and get portability thru AC21 or dropout altogether.
The problem with labor is partly addressed thru PERM. Over the next couple of years the BEC's eliminate the backlog and soon everybody will be in the hunt for the VISA numbers.
The best that can be done now is the fight for more VISA numbers and be able to file for I485 whether a VISA number is available or not or anything that addresses this like
1: increase the overall VISA numbers (McGain && Kennedy)
2: capture unused VISA numbers
3: Cap not being applicable for those with Masters degree in ---- && 3+ years exp before starting the G.C process (Sen. Chuk hagel)
4: Being able to file I-485 even with no VISA number(failed S-1932)
--MC
PlainSpeak
01-13 12:43 PM
Only one thing I like in this big post,, that is you are not HE you are SHE... we can be friends, you are so nice.
MC
If wishes were wings, pigs would fly
MC
If wishes were wings, pigs would fly
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sumagiri
07-23 02:07 PM
that EB3 quota has been used up for this fiscal and will re-open in October only. I assume you're wondering whether some FB spill over would go to EB3. If that's the case they wouldn't have announced EB3 quota is over.
Legal, Thanks again. Also that is where exactly is the contradiction in analysis.
In my understanding, they must apply any spill over to EB3 too. EB3 gets 28.6% of total quota (Including spill overs). If some one is sure that it is not the case, please correct me.
If spill over was already applied and if EB3 will not open up again, then EB3 already got its share of spill over and EB2 also used up some part of that spill over, so only part of that spill over is left for the 2 months.
If spill over is not applied yet, then EB3 should get 28.6% of what ever is spilled over to total EB quota. Hence EB3 should open up again.
Please note that I am not making this complex. I am only pointing at complexities.
Legal, Thanks again. Also that is where exactly is the contradiction in analysis.
In my understanding, they must apply any spill over to EB3 too. EB3 gets 28.6% of total quota (Including spill overs). If some one is sure that it is not the case, please correct me.
If spill over was already applied and if EB3 will not open up again, then EB3 already got its share of spill over and EB2 also used up some part of that spill over, so only part of that spill over is left for the 2 months.
If spill over is not applied yet, then EB3 should get 28.6% of what ever is spilled over to total EB quota. Hence EB3 should open up again.
Please note that I am not making this complex. I am only pointing at complexities.
more...
conchshell
07-29 01:06 PM
I assume that all the EB2 India who have decided to go for CP route will get their immigrant visas stamped in India. I noticed that New Delhi and Mumbai consulates posts a list of candidates due for immigrant visa interview at their website by the middle of the month. May be this list can give us an idea as to how many EB2 India will get their GC through consular posts:
This is the link for New Delhi consulate: http://newdelhi.usembassy.gov/visa_interview_dates.html
This is the link for Mumbai Consulate : http://mumbai.usconsulate.gov/interview_appt_schedule.html
At the links mentioned above, you will find PDF documents telling us how many Employment based (EB2) people are scheduled for an interview during August 2008.
If we can search and locate similar links for Chennai, and Kolkata consulate, probably by mid August we would be in a position to find out how many EB2 India are going to get their GC's in August 2008 through CP route. This will also tell us how many visas USCIS has got to process/waste.
Gurus ... am I making any mistake here?
This is the link for New Delhi consulate: http://newdelhi.usembassy.gov/visa_interview_dates.html
This is the link for Mumbai Consulate : http://mumbai.usconsulate.gov/interview_appt_schedule.html
At the links mentioned above, you will find PDF documents telling us how many Employment based (EB2) people are scheduled for an interview during August 2008.
If we can search and locate similar links for Chennai, and Kolkata consulate, probably by mid August we would be in a position to find out how many EB2 India are going to get their GC's in August 2008 through CP route. This will also tell us how many visas USCIS has got to process/waste.
Gurus ... am I making any mistake here?
snathan
08-16 11:28 AM
I never worship any actor. But now I dont even have any respect for this stupid SRK. If he doesnt like to step on american soil again, I am very glad. This moron thinks american economy will plunge into recession again if he is not coming to america. Atleast salman kahn makes some sensible comment.
more...
jungalee43
12-17 08:20 AM
Thanks for the update. No need to reveal any more details. At least I know the e-mails that I sent made their way to some one who matters.
We have taken these ideas to executive and legislative branches of the government. Our suggestions/proposals have been taken up at the top most level. This has been discussed more than few times with favorable consideration. Without being able to share the specifics, we have received extremely positive feedback for our suggestions. Specific events have to occur before this and similar ideas could possibly be considered in the new administration.
Thanks,
We have taken these ideas to executive and legislative branches of the government. Our suggestions/proposals have been taken up at the top most level. This has been discussed more than few times with favorable consideration. Without being able to share the specifics, we have received extremely positive feedback for our suggestions. Specific events have to occur before this and similar ideas could possibly be considered in the new administration.
Thanks,
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amoljak
10-24 10:17 AM
Ok got it thanks Amoljak
So then that is the only way one can SELL you an approved LC?
Yes... other than some rare outright frauds who make counterfeit LCs etc. But they always get caught, because their scams are so stupid...
So then that is the only way one can SELL you an approved LC?
Yes... other than some rare outright frauds who make counterfeit LCs etc. But they always get caught, because their scams are so stupid...
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kshitijnt
03-29 06:06 PM
I just look at this pool and surprised that Advani is running so hot in the pool. I am from Gujarat and I can tell that advani will be worst as PM. when given a Chance in BJP ministry he had worst performance as Home minister. I think he had not managed anything in his life and after his rise in BJP, BJP lost his charm.
I think some one with good management skill like MMohan, MODI, Chidambaram etc are lot more sutiabel than Advani.
Advani should retire from politics before even Bajpai. Even lalu will be better as PM than Advani looking to how advani managed Home Ministry and how Lalu Managed Railway.
Thank you for your personal opinion. India was doing well when Vajpayee was PM. He is not some management honcho. It is a vision of the person that is more important. Manmohan is a learned man and has provided country with real good service but real power rests with Sonia and her son Rahul.
Hence. Its a question of ideology in the long run and given my background, BJP govt suits me better than Congress. So I prefer Advani over Sonia.
I think some one with good management skill like MMohan, MODI, Chidambaram etc are lot more sutiabel than Advani.
Advani should retire from politics before even Bajpai. Even lalu will be better as PM than Advani looking to how advani managed Home Ministry and how Lalu Managed Railway.
Thank you for your personal opinion. India was doing well when Vajpayee was PM. He is not some management honcho. It is a vision of the person that is more important. Manmohan is a learned man and has provided country with real good service but real power rests with Sonia and her son Rahul.
Hence. Its a question of ideology in the long run and given my background, BJP govt suits me better than Congress. So I prefer Advani over Sonia.
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anai
06-27 12:48 PM
Three facts, followed by one interpretation.
First: several members (incl self) have checked with their own lawyers and these lawyers tend to agree with the common interpretation of validity for entire month. And at least some of these are lawyers with many years of practice.
Second: Fragomen, the largest immigration law firm, on its website mentions the mid-month possibility; so while there is no government source, the whole topic cannot be dismissed as an unfounded rumor.
Third: Macaca keeps cutting and pasting from the ombudsman's report in many different colors.
My interpretation:
The mid-month concept seems to be a matter of opinion. Multicolor posts notwithstanding, there's nothing official on this matter so far. (I emailed the state department seeking an answer; not surprisingly, I haven't heard back. If anyone else can get something from the horse's mouth, then post it here. If you can get stuff only from the other end of the horse, then maybe there's isn't much pointing in driving a general panic.)
First: several members (incl self) have checked with their own lawyers and these lawyers tend to agree with the common interpretation of validity for entire month. And at least some of these are lawyers with many years of practice.
Second: Fragomen, the largest immigration law firm, on its website mentions the mid-month possibility; so while there is no government source, the whole topic cannot be dismissed as an unfounded rumor.
Third: Macaca keeps cutting and pasting from the ombudsman's report in many different colors.
My interpretation:
The mid-month concept seems to be a matter of opinion. Multicolor posts notwithstanding, there's nothing official on this matter so far. (I emailed the state department seeking an answer; not surprisingly, I haven't heard back. If anyone else can get something from the horse's mouth, then post it here. If you can get stuff only from the other end of the horse, then maybe there's isn't much pointing in driving a general panic.)
more...
vdlrao
07-16 10:25 PM
Does anybody know how many EB2-I and EB2-ROW PERMs were processed for 2006, 2007 and 2008? Once we know these numbers it will be easy to predict EB2-I movement as all of the spillover numbers will be used primarily by EB2 India.
http://www.immigration.com/newsletter1/attregusimmsuppo.pdf
http://www.immigration.com/newsletter1/permstatsjune08.pdf
Total Labors approved in year 2007 --> 85,112
Total Labors for India in year 2007 --> 24,573.
Total Labors for China in Year 2007 --> 6,846
Total labors approved from Mar 2005 to till May 2008 --> 209,393
http://www.immigration.com/newsletter1/attregusimmsuppo.pdf
http://www.immigration.com/newsletter1/permstatsjune08.pdf
Total Labors approved in year 2007 --> 85,112
Total Labors for India in year 2007 --> 24,573.
Total Labors for China in Year 2007 --> 6,846
Total labors approved from Mar 2005 to till May 2008 --> 209,393
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Marphad
05-18 10:44 AM
Oh Yeah? Says who? You? and made you the boss?
So you mean to say we have to listen to imposter like you who is roaming around in immigration forum with chargeability as United States? There could be only 2 reasons for this:
1. You want to use fake profile to spread non-sense rumours and un-necessary posts.
2. You are anti-immigrant.
In both cases I want to show you door. Have a nice day buddy. Now please leave.
So you mean to say we have to listen to imposter like you who is roaming around in immigration forum with chargeability as United States? There could be only 2 reasons for this:
1. You want to use fake profile to spread non-sense rumours and un-necessary posts.
2. You are anti-immigrant.
In both cases I want to show you door. Have a nice day buddy. Now please leave.
more...
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snathan
01-16 01:40 PM
Accepting regulations does not mean to prevent Indians to come here. I can tell many examples. There are many bodyshoppers get h1B and make the persons to sit on bench in India or USA. I know some persons come here 1 year after getting h1b. But many reputed companies those who are real need of people could not get H1b as Cap was reduced. Putting restrictions on on bodyshoppers will improve H1b usage and wastage can be eliminated. And will make h1b program legitimate.
If you like the regulation please go ahead and follow that regulation. We are scrabling to find the legal solution here. Why you waste your time in something which you dont believe. YOu are unnecessarily deviating from the topic. Please ignore this thread if you dont believe in the cause.
If you like the regulation please go ahead and follow that regulation. We are scrabling to find the legal solution here. Why you waste your time in something which you dont believe. YOu are unnecessarily deviating from the topic. Please ignore this thread if you dont believe in the cause.
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JazzByTheBay
02-15 10:44 AM
You can pack your bags and leave. You are here by your own choice, and work within the legal framework of the country. You are free to leave when you please.
The slavery argument doesn't hold.
jazz
Modern Day Slavery in the 21st century
Any person who is restricted from making travel choices, employer choice, personal choices beneficial to himself and his family, just because his employer or the goverment is restricting him in some form to make monetary benefit for itself, is called a slave.
I have reached the critical mass in me to take this up on my own, any legal advice and moral support from you guys would be appreciated.
Thanks
The slavery argument doesn't hold.
jazz
Modern Day Slavery in the 21st century
Any person who is restricted from making travel choices, employer choice, personal choices beneficial to himself and his family, just because his employer or the goverment is restricting him in some form to make monetary benefit for itself, is called a slave.
I have reached the critical mass in me to take this up on my own, any legal advice and moral support from you guys would be appreciated.
Thanks
more...
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greencard_fever
07-25 07:13 PM
I still believe in EB2 will try to catch up current by next October.
vdlrao you have been really amazing on doing the analysis on VB prediction. Kudos to you dude..i will hope you will be proved right in feature. keep your figures crossed till Sep 08 Bulletin which will shed some light on your predictions..
vdlrao you have been really amazing on doing the analysis on VB prediction. Kudos to you dude..i will hope you will be proved right in feature. keep your figures crossed till Sep 08 Bulletin which will shed some light on your predictions..
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god_bless_you
10-17 02:09 PM
I am finally moving to canada in 2-3 months. Deadline for landing is March 3rd 2007.
I am done with US Green Card and can not take this stress any more. Starting to sell my house and other stuff soon.
is the information on this website www.notcanada.com is reliable?
is the job market that worst there??
I am done with US Green Card and can not take this stress any more. Starting to sell my house and other stuff soon.
is the information on this website www.notcanada.com is reliable?
is the job market that worst there??
more...
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samay
07-29 10:36 AM
Thanks a lot for your reply.
I had completed my BSc in computer science with 3 years & also completed my Masters(MCA) in computer science with 3 years.(both from India)
Total I have 6 years(3 yrs bachelors + 3 yrs masters) of education/qualification in Computer Science.
My labor has been approved & in that it is mentioned, position requires Masters degree.
Do I qualify for EB2 category?
I already filled I-140 in March 2008 under EB2.
I will really appreciate your response.
Thanks.
To answer your question I will have to go through all your I-140 documents. What did your academic evaluation and experiential evaluation stipulate.
I had completed my BSc in computer science with 3 years & also completed my Masters(MCA) in computer science with 3 years.(both from India)
Total I have 6 years(3 yrs bachelors + 3 yrs masters) of education/qualification in Computer Science.
My labor has been approved & in that it is mentioned, position requires Masters degree.
Do I qualify for EB2 category?
I already filled I-140 in March 2008 under EB2.
I will really appreciate your response.
Thanks.
To answer your question I will have to go through all your I-140 documents. What did your academic evaluation and experiential evaluation stipulate.
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Munna Bhai
02-15 11:49 AM
Bestia,
First thanks 4 your advice. We'll send 2 separate cheques, one 4 me and one 4 my husband.Is this what U meant when suggesting 2 send "my own cheque"?
Why do U say I have good chance to have my AOS adjudecated? I really needed to hear that. Can U be more specific? Any idea/guess how long could it take to get GC?
About EAD. I 'm on H4, not working yet, that's why I am eager to get EAD. Do U think that there is no chance to get it within the 90 days? My husband is on H1B an he has I40 already approved. He won't leave his job that's for sure.
What "IV" stands for? Where can I found more about it?
Follow what Bestia says. What Bestia meant is that, you should send your personnal cheques so that you can track it. Yes, there are good chances of AOS approval because that is normal thing, unless you are out-of-status or if your employer is in black list. No one knows how long it will take to get a GC but do look for other options like EAD etc.
Hope this helps. Ask as many questions as you have, we will do our best to answer.
First thanks 4 your advice. We'll send 2 separate cheques, one 4 me and one 4 my husband.Is this what U meant when suggesting 2 send "my own cheque"?
Why do U say I have good chance to have my AOS adjudecated? I really needed to hear that. Can U be more specific? Any idea/guess how long could it take to get GC?
About EAD. I 'm on H4, not working yet, that's why I am eager to get EAD. Do U think that there is no chance to get it within the 90 days? My husband is on H1B an he has I40 already approved. He won't leave his job that's for sure.
What "IV" stands for? Where can I found more about it?
Follow what Bestia says. What Bestia meant is that, you should send your personnal cheques so that you can track it. Yes, there are good chances of AOS approval because that is normal thing, unless you are out-of-status or if your employer is in black list. No one knows how long it will take to get a GC but do look for other options like EAD etc.
Hope this helps. Ask as many questions as you have, we will do our best to answer.
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meridiani.planum
10-07 05:28 PM
I have built a very simple EB2-I Visa predition model
Making following assumption
15000 new EB2 ROW I-485 applications
12000 new EB1 I-485 applications
EB4/EB5 use 70% of allocated visa (30% spillover)
EB2 Visa Bulletin prediction for FY 2010
Bulletin Quarterly-spillover Annual Spillover
Oct-09 22-Jan-2005 22-Jan-2005
Nov-09 22-Jan-2005 22-Jan-2005
Dec-09 31-Mar-2005 1-Feb-2005
Jan-10 31-Mar-2005 15-Feb-2005
Feb-10 31-Mar-2005 31-Mar-2005
Mar-10 31-Mar-2006 31-Mar-2005
Apr-10 31-Mar-2006 31-Mar-2005
May-10 31-Mar-2006 31-Mar-2005
Jun-10 15-Oct-2006 31-Mar-2005
Jul-10 15-Oct-2006 30-Sep-2005
Aug-10 15-Oct-2006 30-Apr-2007
Sep-10 31-Mar-2007 30-May-2007
3rd Q spillover numbers are too optimistic. 2006 alone has ~20k pending EB2I. you are assuming whole of that, plus 1 quarter eachfrom 05 and 07?
Making following assumption
15000 new EB2 ROW I-485 applications
12000 new EB1 I-485 applications
EB4/EB5 use 70% of allocated visa (30% spillover)
EB2 Visa Bulletin prediction for FY 2010
Bulletin Quarterly-spillover Annual Spillover
Oct-09 22-Jan-2005 22-Jan-2005
Nov-09 22-Jan-2005 22-Jan-2005
Dec-09 31-Mar-2005 1-Feb-2005
Jan-10 31-Mar-2005 15-Feb-2005
Feb-10 31-Mar-2005 31-Mar-2005
Mar-10 31-Mar-2006 31-Mar-2005
Apr-10 31-Mar-2006 31-Mar-2005
May-10 31-Mar-2006 31-Mar-2005
Jun-10 15-Oct-2006 31-Mar-2005
Jul-10 15-Oct-2006 30-Sep-2005
Aug-10 15-Oct-2006 30-Apr-2007
Sep-10 31-Mar-2007 30-May-2007
3rd Q spillover numbers are too optimistic. 2006 alone has ~20k pending EB2I. you are assuming whole of that, plus 1 quarter eachfrom 05 and 07?
jonty_11
07-13 01:21 PM
mind u with bigots like tancredo winning their district every election, US is not far beind when it comes to RACISM
Here's an article that appeared in Outlook (India) magazine 8 years ago. Apparently, the situation hasn't changed much since then:
http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fname=international1&fodname=19990125&sid=1
Canada...The Grass Isn't Greener
Outlook: Jan 25, 1999
It's a dream gone sour. Thousands of Indian immigrants who land up in Canada are, more often than not, greeted with unemployment, racism, culture shocks...
SOHAILA CHARNALIA
"I didn't come here to be a chowkidar. I came here believing it to be a land of opportunity; a country that has never known the nepotism, the corruption, the shortages of India. I find I have only substituted one country for another... certainly not one set of values for another, as I hoped. " For Dr Gurdial Singh Dhillon, who was made to believe his qualifications would land him a good job fast, Canada was a real disappointment. When he did find work, it was that of a security guard. This, when the United Nations has declared Canada the best country to live in.
Some 200,000 people migrate to Canada every year, a majority from Asia. Hong Kong heads the list, followed by India, China, Taiwan and the Philippines. According to the Citizenship & Immigration Canada report, 21,249 Indians migrated to Canada in 1996 alone. (The high commission in Delhi, however, put the figure at 17,682). For many of them, especially those who are qualified professionals, dreams die fast. The life they face is never quite as rosy as made out by money-raking immigration lawyers.
Is the UN report the only reason for the increase in Indian applications for immigration? That, and the fact that it is easier to get entry into Canada than any other western country, says a Delhi-based immigration lawyer. Also, the fastest way of getting immigration to the US is through Canada.
Dhillon's disappointment is echoed by others. "I should have done my own homework before I applied", rues Aparna Shirodhkar, an architect from Mumbai, working as a saleswoman in a department store. "My husband is unemployed. I am the sole earner for a family of four. Sometimes I feel like running back". For Raheela Wasim, who's gone from being a schoolteacher in India to a telemarketer here, the experience was very discouraging, very disheartening. "I started losing confidence in myself. I felt I was not capable of the job market here".
Jobs are the sore point with Indian immigrants. The irony is, they are often more qualified than their Canadian peers, yet they end up with either no work, or with entry-level jobs that have no future. "I was not told that you require a Canadian degree to get a job here", says Paramjeet Parmar, a postgraduate in biochemistry from Bombay University. Parmar works as a telemarketer, which has turned her from an elite professional to an unskilled, daily wage labourer.
Ditto Opinder Khosla, a mechanical engineer from India, who has ended up as a salesman. "I found it difficult to even get an interview call", he says. The Canadian authorities are non-committal about the social and economic devaluation that the country imposes on immigrants.
"You can't come thinking you can just walk in and get a job in your profession", says Isabel Basset, minister of citizenship, culture and recreation, responsible for handling immigrants' woes in Canada's largest province, Ontario. But she admits that the licensing bodies regulating the professions need to be more accepting of people trained elsewhere.
That effort could only come from the government, argues Demetrius Oriopolis, co-author of Access, a government-commissioned report on assessing qualifications of newcomers, a 10-year-old report whose recommendations have still to be implemented. The report suggests certain rules of equivalence should be made binding on the regulatory bodies, which are exclusionist by nature.
But Basset won't even hear of making the regulatory bodies accountable: "We believe in private enterprise with a minimum of government checks. Besides, she argues, the exercise would cost millions of dollars".
Needless to say, the organisations are gleeful. Only professional bodies have the ability to determine what constitutes competence in a particular profession, was the cold response of the spokesperson for the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, an institution that's responsible for the unemployment as well as under-employment of hundreds of qualified chartered accountants from India. They do not grant licences for professional practice, because Indian qualifications are not acceptable.
"What kind of society are we creating? Is it a new form of slavery?" asks an irate Bhausaheb Ubale, Canada's former human rights commissioner. Qualified immigrants work as drivers, guards. If this isn't job discrimination, what is? Dr Ubale lobbied intensely before Indians were accepted in the media. They now hold jobs as reporters and anchors, he says, but a lot more has to be done.
While skilled men may not be able to find jobs, their less qualified wives find it easier because they accept whatever comes their way. In several cases, the wives earn and support their husbands who are busy upgrading themselves, by studying for a Canadian degree. The working wife sometimes slogs away at three jobs. Sumitra starts at 7 am at her first job, teaching immigrants English; her second job as telemarketer starts at 4 pm. She gets back home around 8 pm, after which she begins selling cosmetics and household goods door to door. Till midnight. Sumitra supports three students, her husband and two school-going children.
The other problems Indians face here are the high taxes, high mortgage payments for new homes and the sort of hidebound laws that the benign anarchy back home hardly prepares them for. "You can't run a red light, you can't escape from a hit-and-run site even if you are just the witness, you can't smoke in public. Too many rules, so different from home", says Harminder Singh.
Two 'Indian' practices that do exist here, however, cause immigrants the maximum trouble. They are sifarish baazi (nepotism) and mufat ka kaam (free work). The Canadians, of course, have given them sophisticated terminologies, the former is referred to as 'networking' and the latter, 'volunteerism'. In a country where you are never encouraged to 'drop in' to meet someone, where the fax, the computer or the phone is used to complete most transactions, a job-seeking immigrant often has the phone put down on him. Polite but firm secretaries block access, unless the caller can drop a magic name that can help him gain entry. It takes at least a year for even the most enterprising immigrant to get to know somebody who can help him, before he can get a job at all.
'Networking' goes hand in hand with 'volunteerism'. Many immigrants put in a year of free service before they are given the job. Most writers and anchors of Asian origin are given only part-time jobs, paid by assignment and with no fringe benefits. The company insists on the word 'freelance' on their business cards, to make it clear they have not been hired by the company, and hence can't demand higher pay or any benefits. They can, and often are, fired at will.
Perhaps the greatest problem in Canada is the one that is least articulated--racism. According to a diversity report on Toronto (said to be the most ethnically diverse city in the world), the year 2000 will see its minority becoming its majority that is, 54 per cent of Toronto's population by the end of the millennium will be non-Whites. Keeping that in mind, it warned, if the discrimination against them in education, employment, income and housing, or incidents of hate are not addressed, it will lead to a growing sense of frustration.
"All our problems exist because of racism", sums up Anita Ferrao, who works in a firm. Anita has worked for them for three years and has got neither promotion nor raise. "As an Indian immigrant, you can never reach the top. They'll see to that. It's better to bring in some money here and start a business. It's the only way you'll do well here and be respected. "
But then if life is so tough here, why do people give up everything back home and come? The answer is the rosy picture of North America, inculcated right from childhood. Everything 'American' is considered superior. Better food, better homes, better life.
Here's an article that appeared in Outlook (India) magazine 8 years ago. Apparently, the situation hasn't changed much since then:
http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fname=international1&fodname=19990125&sid=1
Canada...The Grass Isn't Greener
Outlook: Jan 25, 1999
It's a dream gone sour. Thousands of Indian immigrants who land up in Canada are, more often than not, greeted with unemployment, racism, culture shocks...
SOHAILA CHARNALIA
"I didn't come here to be a chowkidar. I came here believing it to be a land of opportunity; a country that has never known the nepotism, the corruption, the shortages of India. I find I have only substituted one country for another... certainly not one set of values for another, as I hoped. " For Dr Gurdial Singh Dhillon, who was made to believe his qualifications would land him a good job fast, Canada was a real disappointment. When he did find work, it was that of a security guard. This, when the United Nations has declared Canada the best country to live in.
Some 200,000 people migrate to Canada every year, a majority from Asia. Hong Kong heads the list, followed by India, China, Taiwan and the Philippines. According to the Citizenship & Immigration Canada report, 21,249 Indians migrated to Canada in 1996 alone. (The high commission in Delhi, however, put the figure at 17,682). For many of them, especially those who are qualified professionals, dreams die fast. The life they face is never quite as rosy as made out by money-raking immigration lawyers.
Is the UN report the only reason for the increase in Indian applications for immigration? That, and the fact that it is easier to get entry into Canada than any other western country, says a Delhi-based immigration lawyer. Also, the fastest way of getting immigration to the US is through Canada.
Dhillon's disappointment is echoed by others. "I should have done my own homework before I applied", rues Aparna Shirodhkar, an architect from Mumbai, working as a saleswoman in a department store. "My husband is unemployed. I am the sole earner for a family of four. Sometimes I feel like running back". For Raheela Wasim, who's gone from being a schoolteacher in India to a telemarketer here, the experience was very discouraging, very disheartening. "I started losing confidence in myself. I felt I was not capable of the job market here".
Jobs are the sore point with Indian immigrants. The irony is, they are often more qualified than their Canadian peers, yet they end up with either no work, or with entry-level jobs that have no future. "I was not told that you require a Canadian degree to get a job here", says Paramjeet Parmar, a postgraduate in biochemistry from Bombay University. Parmar works as a telemarketer, which has turned her from an elite professional to an unskilled, daily wage labourer.
Ditto Opinder Khosla, a mechanical engineer from India, who has ended up as a salesman. "I found it difficult to even get an interview call", he says. The Canadian authorities are non-committal about the social and economic devaluation that the country imposes on immigrants.
"You can't come thinking you can just walk in and get a job in your profession", says Isabel Basset, minister of citizenship, culture and recreation, responsible for handling immigrants' woes in Canada's largest province, Ontario. But she admits that the licensing bodies regulating the professions need to be more accepting of people trained elsewhere.
That effort could only come from the government, argues Demetrius Oriopolis, co-author of Access, a government-commissioned report on assessing qualifications of newcomers, a 10-year-old report whose recommendations have still to be implemented. The report suggests certain rules of equivalence should be made binding on the regulatory bodies, which are exclusionist by nature.
But Basset won't even hear of making the regulatory bodies accountable: "We believe in private enterprise with a minimum of government checks. Besides, she argues, the exercise would cost millions of dollars".
Needless to say, the organisations are gleeful. Only professional bodies have the ability to determine what constitutes competence in a particular profession, was the cold response of the spokesperson for the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, an institution that's responsible for the unemployment as well as under-employment of hundreds of qualified chartered accountants from India. They do not grant licences for professional practice, because Indian qualifications are not acceptable.
"What kind of society are we creating? Is it a new form of slavery?" asks an irate Bhausaheb Ubale, Canada's former human rights commissioner. Qualified immigrants work as drivers, guards. If this isn't job discrimination, what is? Dr Ubale lobbied intensely before Indians were accepted in the media. They now hold jobs as reporters and anchors, he says, but a lot more has to be done.
While skilled men may not be able to find jobs, their less qualified wives find it easier because they accept whatever comes their way. In several cases, the wives earn and support their husbands who are busy upgrading themselves, by studying for a Canadian degree. The working wife sometimes slogs away at three jobs. Sumitra starts at 7 am at her first job, teaching immigrants English; her second job as telemarketer starts at 4 pm. She gets back home around 8 pm, after which she begins selling cosmetics and household goods door to door. Till midnight. Sumitra supports three students, her husband and two school-going children.
The other problems Indians face here are the high taxes, high mortgage payments for new homes and the sort of hidebound laws that the benign anarchy back home hardly prepares them for. "You can't run a red light, you can't escape from a hit-and-run site even if you are just the witness, you can't smoke in public. Too many rules, so different from home", says Harminder Singh.
Two 'Indian' practices that do exist here, however, cause immigrants the maximum trouble. They are sifarish baazi (nepotism) and mufat ka kaam (free work). The Canadians, of course, have given them sophisticated terminologies, the former is referred to as 'networking' and the latter, 'volunteerism'. In a country where you are never encouraged to 'drop in' to meet someone, where the fax, the computer or the phone is used to complete most transactions, a job-seeking immigrant often has the phone put down on him. Polite but firm secretaries block access, unless the caller can drop a magic name that can help him gain entry. It takes at least a year for even the most enterprising immigrant to get to know somebody who can help him, before he can get a job at all.
'Networking' goes hand in hand with 'volunteerism'. Many immigrants put in a year of free service before they are given the job. Most writers and anchors of Asian origin are given only part-time jobs, paid by assignment and with no fringe benefits. The company insists on the word 'freelance' on their business cards, to make it clear they have not been hired by the company, and hence can't demand higher pay or any benefits. They can, and often are, fired at will.
Perhaps the greatest problem in Canada is the one that is least articulated--racism. According to a diversity report on Toronto (said to be the most ethnically diverse city in the world), the year 2000 will see its minority becoming its majority that is, 54 per cent of Toronto's population by the end of the millennium will be non-Whites. Keeping that in mind, it warned, if the discrimination against them in education, employment, income and housing, or incidents of hate are not addressed, it will lead to a growing sense of frustration.
"All our problems exist because of racism", sums up Anita Ferrao, who works in a firm. Anita has worked for them for three years and has got neither promotion nor raise. "As an Indian immigrant, you can never reach the top. They'll see to that. It's better to bring in some money here and start a business. It's the only way you'll do well here and be respected. "
But then if life is so tough here, why do people give up everything back home and come? The answer is the rosy picture of North America, inculcated right from childhood. Everything 'American' is considered superior. Better food, better homes, better life.
eb3_nepa
10-23 04:17 PM
eb3_nepa, some people have the special ability to create business opportunities when others see none. E.g. Do you think a job at a primary school can be sold? Think again. You have to buy it in India. Another example... have you been to the Empire state building? For $12 you can wait in line for ~4 hours and enjoy the view after that. But for $40 you can go straight to the top. With labor sub its the same deal. Your company has an approved labor, there are 5 suckers who would otherwise wait 10 years in the GC line. They all do a great job of Java programming that you need your prospective employee to do. How do you decide which one to hire?
For some companies its easy.. they select the one who pays them a premium.
To your other question... no you cannot transfer approved labor to other company... so if you want to be in this business of labor subs, you have to go through the pains of labor before being able to sell one...
Some smart people have figured another great business. They go through the labor pains once and then clone the labor certs (hint: color copier)... those visionaries sometimes end up behind bars...
Thanks for the reply Amoljak,
Now if you can please remove all the sarcasm and explain this in more detail in laymen's terms, it would really help me. I mean how is it that atleast 10 members on this site have mentioned people selling and buying LCs LEGALLY! Were they bluffing or are we reading into the law wrongly?
Thanks
For some companies its easy.. they select the one who pays them a premium.
To your other question... no you cannot transfer approved labor to other company... so if you want to be in this business of labor subs, you have to go through the pains of labor before being able to sell one...
Some smart people have figured another great business. They go through the labor pains once and then clone the labor certs (hint: color copier)... those visionaries sometimes end up behind bars...
Thanks for the reply Amoljak,
Now if you can please remove all the sarcasm and explain this in more detail in laymen's terms, it would really help me. I mean how is it that atleast 10 members on this site have mentioned people selling and buying LCs LEGALLY! Were they bluffing or are we reading into the law wrongly?
Thanks
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